Curse

Scaphism · Jun 02, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Let me share a bit of my own experience:

I'm one of the co-founders of Idiot Savants, but we've only existed for just over a month. I hear our name mentioned a lot, and I like to hear it, but our story shouldn't be too shocking: I started playing with 2 friends, we met a few new people we all liked playing with, so we started playing together. Not enough to field a full team by any means. Then we met another group in a similar situation. We discussed merging, privately and publicly, and put the merger together just before the game went retail.

Why did we merge? PUGing is tough, and I didn't particularly enjoy it. I like to win, and I prefer playing with friends. Both together? It's a win-win fun-fun situation.

I think iQ has an excellent group of skilled players, and I'm confident we'll remain one of the tops guilds even when the rest of the competition gets more organized. The key here? Organization. We put together a (powerhouse, IMO) group and committed to playing with each other. Before that, just a month ago we were in roughly the same situation as it seems like many of the frustrated people are in.

Get organized, get more skilled, get better. The exciting part about being involved in a new game is that we have a chance to set the tone, instead of conforming to the status quo.

modru2004 · Jun 02, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Generally, guild groups win HoH battles. They are more organized and have developed deeper strategies... So I doubt many PUGs can compete

well depends on the group. i built a pickup group that won the hall of heroes a few days ago. no ts or vent even. just some good team players that knew how to support each other. and some awesome monks

sama · Jun 02, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiC

Ironically enough, last night I actually managed to find a nice skilled team to go into the tombs with, and we had a solid flawless run to the HoH, which was a welcomed change. Once there, we got destroyed by a rather interesting build that a pretty good guild was using - first time I've gotten owned so bad by rangers in awhile. The loss itself was fine with me, because not only did we get as far as we did, but we played well getting there. That's really all I want out of a PUG group, and last night, it willingly kept me up till almost 3 in the morning.

lol, that was us. we were the only ones using mass rangers last night =)

though we had trouble keeping the hoh for longer than 4-5 runs at a time because we didn't have enough aoe dmg. atm, i don't mind playing the lower maps and against pugs...i'm about 400 points from rank 9 and the spiffy tiger emote =)

xellos, the guild i'm in right now is just an alt guild we use for gvg, so you could've joined us if you wanted. we were testing new recruits anywayz.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 02, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

I'm in a guild with real life friends who aren't into PVP. So I'm stuck playing Arenas or random groups in HOH. But here's my real problem... I can't even get into ANY groups in HOH because no one wants a Ranger. Not just any Ranger, a Ranger/Warrior. I've been booted countless times from groups to get someone "better"

The Arenas are getting old and I'd just like to play in the Tombs, but sometimes I literally have to wait for an hour for someone to accept me into their group. I guess I need to find some PVP buddies.

EDIT: Ohhh I just read Sama's post. A Ranger group? Damn where do I sign up?

Trenchsoul · Jun 02, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Unless they get some kind of real ladder system that seperates the nubs from the pros this game will swifty be replaced by something else on my desktop. The killer reason why WC3 held my attention for so long was because after you reached a certain level you didn't have to worry about getting teamed with nubs. Even at level 10 you cut out most of the fat. Dawn of War lasted me a week because of the terribly designed multiplayer. Another solution is to give rewards for doing PvP other than in the HoH. At least make me feel like I'm doing something....

TiC · Jun 02, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaphism

I started playing with 2 friends, we met a few new people we all liked playing with, so we started playing together. Not enough to field a full team by any means. Then we met another group in a similar situation. We discussed merging, privately and publicly, and put the merger together just before the game went retail.

Why did we merge? PUGing is tough, and I didn't particularly enjoy it. I like to win, and I prefer playing with friends. Both together? It's a win-win fun-fun situation.

This is what I have been trying to do, but it's getting increasingly more difficult with each day that passes. I imagine it was easier in the beta simply because the game was still new and fresh, and many didn't have any serious guild commitments yet.

This doesn't seem to be the situation anymore, as virtually every good player that I've played with (which, in itself is rare) has been part of a larger competitive guild. With all of these massive guilds already established, it's extremely difficult to assign any worth to me or my little guild of friends, regardless of our particular skill. My fame itself is actually still pretty low (despite nearly 4 weeks of playing), which is another hindrance because some people actually believe that individual fame is an accurate representation of player skill - thus limiting my options even further.

I think the key problem here is that in order for these guilds to form, the PUGs have to be a viable option to meet other players who you would want to recruit. During the beta, this may have been the case. As it stands now, it's hard to find people, let alone groups, who fall under that category.

worker · Jun 02, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

It really matters on who you know and whether or not they know if your good or not.

Personally tombs winning groups are a popularity contest on who knows who, to get into what group. Long as you have connections into the group and your skill level is good.. you have high chances of getting in.. most groups I've been in.. higher skilled players want to play only with other high skilled players.

Jab · Jun 02, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Yeah I broadcast at the tombs Mes/nec lfg, for at least 10 minutes. Not one invite, when I even started my own group, no one would even want to join. I think by now the major pvp intensive guilds have formed and are probably leading the charge in the HOH.

Xellos · Jun 02, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I think the problem is that even casual gamers look to tombs for casual PVP, then whine when they see 2 hour setup groups own them. This is ridiculous. The problem lies in Arena, and how it's so pathetic at the moment, it doesn't promote incentives, nor does it promote skill, nor does it promote improvement. At this point, Arena is a joke besides testing out skills. Team arena is a bit fun, but it's still boring. It's pretty sad how the casual players have to play in the hardcore players territory in order to have fun because their own territory has some shack.

Jun 02, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

I only have like 150 or so fame since I havent been tombsing too much, Shinsei has over 6000 I think

But as said before, skilled players gravitate to other skilled players or people who actually are serious about getting better. It wont get you an auto invite into the guild but when they need someone to fill in, chances are you'll be picked over some random PUG.

I've met many people tombs, and one time I was on another guilds TS server[DR] and we had alot of fun that night. One of them is on my friend's list now not only because the group I played with had the potential to be even better, but they didn't even know I was in Idiot Savants(not many people knew the tag is [iQ]) till I told them and it didn't seem like they were trying to impress me:just natural talent coming from them. They actually discussed what they were doing before hitting that start button, didn't say "Omg!!! grp lQQing for lvl 20 Warrior or monk!!! msg me plz!!!shift+1!!!". Thinking and planning before a battle will get any good player's attention in a heartbeat and may open up to better things in the future for someone in a PUG group.

anti_z3r0 · Jun 03, 2005, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Hey Blackace, I distinctly remember PUGing with you in tombs the other day. I was playing on "I Smasha You Face" and we all had a blast. Thought I'd give you a shout.[/offtopic]

I find that it does get very difficult to find teams that truely know what they're doing for tombs. This is in part mostly to people that are new to PvP, or people that are new to the entire game. Hell, I had a guy in a PUG that told us how he was a very good healer since he loaded his character up with 4 major healing runes from his RP character. Most of these guys are just looking for some advice, or some friendly faces. What I've been doing is trying to single out the people that I've PUGed with in tombs and particularly enjoyed playing with, due to skill or friendliness. Those people I will talk to a bit more, get to know them somewhat, and ask them if I can add them to my friends list. This builds up a decent network of people that I would love to PUG with, so when I do feel like PUGing I simply open up my friends list and whisper everyone on to see if they've got any room.

If you start building your social network in GW, then I think you'll have much better experiences.

Jun 03, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

ah I remember that name now

Cymmina · Jun 03, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

What can be done though?

I'm not a white english-speaking male (ok, only 1 out of 3 is true, I'll let you guess), so using vent/ts would only be a distraction for my group, even if my mic was working. I can read much faster than most people can speak, anyway. I'm not a terrible player (I'm reasonably good at my profession, listen to instructions, etc) and I got a fair bit of experience from beta, but no one wants me. With a fame of only 20 that I managed to get during the first few weeks after release, I can't hope for anything better. My current guild is small and not into PvP (my previous guild thought they were hotshot PvPers, but I had no wish to stay in a guild that talked almost exclusively on Vent, even *normal chat*, when I'd rather listen to music than hear a bunch of pimple-poppers mumble all day).

The only place I can PvP is in random arenas, where the character builds I like to play are not suitable for fast paced 4v4. I get "OMG ****ing noob" if I don't bring res sig on my R/E because I actually *use* all 8 of the skills I bring all the time. This is after I watched them all get slaughtered because they chose to ignore any and all called targets. On top of that, the random groupings are plain broken, and my groups may as well just stand there and die when a R, R, E, N gets paired up against a W, Mo, Mo, E because we have no hope in hell of winning. Even if we do win, there's no reward, just a pat on the back telling us our consecutive wins.

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, but it's rather frustrating when you can only play half of a game. I like both PvP and PvE in GW, and it's a slap in the face to see PvPers whine that they *have* to go through PvE if they want skills/etc., when people like me are simply unable to enjoy the other "half" because of the "bar" the hardcore PvPers have in place.

Sure, social networking... how well is that going to work when your friends and ignore list is limited to a combined total of what? Only 20? I've already got a healthy number on my ignore list of people I hope to never see again.

anti_z3r0 · Jun 05, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Personally, from my experiences, you can take someone off ignore after a week or two, and they won't bother you.

Either way, you don't have to just social network from within the game, you can get to know some people here in the forums, and arrange to meet up some day to go for a tombs run. I know that I'd love to go on a tombs run with ya! Just stick in there, tombs PUGs can turn out as good as they can bad, it's just a matter of sticking with it, and not giving up (or whatever they say on the greeting cards)

PM me on here or whisper me in-game, and I'll be more than happy to group with you.

Names:
Hugo The Horrible (main RP char)
I Smasha You Face (main PvP char)

Virtuoso · Jun 05, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiC

Because I can't.

For the 5th day in a row, I've sat in tombs for over a hour waiting, just to find an organized group. Now by organized, I mean, at least able to make it to the HoH, having a good group build, all able to *speak* on vent/ts, etc. I finally get a group, which has maybe 3-5 players already, and find myself having to wait even longer for the group to find additional experienced players. Fine. Then, the game actually starts, and we wind up losing the first match, usually more than once. Switch up builds, swap a player or two, then rinse and repeat. This has happened every single day for the past week or so.

It's really starting to get on my nerves, because I only play for a couple of hours whenever I can, and can't join a PvP guild because of the massive time requirements most of the skilled ones force upon you prior to joining. So by playing unguilded, I"m essentially wasting time, having a nice group discussion on vent/ts, then wasting more time, then calling it a night, day after day.

Is there something I'm missing, or has it truly reached a point where you have to join a guild to participate in the tombs on a competitive level? Because personally, I don't think the PUG situation in tombs could get any worse.

The only way to win in a PUG is to play at a time that no one else is playing so there is very little competition. Try to get into a decent Guild Tombs group if you can. You'll like what you see. The difference is night and day.

-Virt

Edge Martinez · Jun 05, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

I consider myself one of the nicer posters here, so take this with that in mind... I don't think there's enough cheese in Wisconsin to go with all this whine.

PvP is challenging? PUGs aren't as coordinated as guilds? Certain guilds control the HoH? The casual gamer doesn't do as well as people who put major time into the game?

Correct. Next?

I AM the casual gamer. Like so many of you, GW is just a free time hobby for me. My guild would rather play Mechwarrior online for the most part. It's where we came from. When we play GW, however, we do alot of PvP, sometimes together, mostly apart. I've been to the HoH a whopping one time, and it was with a PUG that just happened to be incredible. Everytime I go out there though, win or lose, I practice or hone a new strategy for monk or mesmer. I've gotten a few good ideas from the paladin build I just created. I bought the game for PvE, but PvP is what I mostly play.

With that said, there are a few things I know:
PvP is Challenging.
Guilds usually beat PUGs.
The great guilds keep winning.
I probably won't do as well as someone who does this all day, every day.

Dejavu!

With GW, for every frustration there has been a solution. I don't like to see people get frustrated with the game because they think they've hit a wall. The original poster may very well have some problems getting better without joining a Guild, but what did he expect with a game called GUILD Wars? I think the most important point in this thread was by Scaphism. A month ago his guild was like every other, and now they are doing quite well. Want to know the secret to success at PvP? Go back to page 1 and reread his post. Want to know the secret to happiness with this game? Check the first sentence of this last paragraph.

Edge

Moltov joss · Jun 05, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenchsoul

Unless they get some kind of real ladder system that seperates the nubs from the pros this game will swifty be replaced by something else on my desktop. The killer reason why WC3 held my attention for so long was because after you reached a certain level you didn't have to worry about getting teamed with nubs. Even at level 10 you cut out most of the fat. Dawn of War lasted me a week because of the terribly designed multiplayer. Another solution is to give rewards for doing PvP other than in the HoH. At least make me feel like I'm doing something....

So true whats a 43-0 run outside of HoH? Jack! I mean come on gotta be something for that.